{White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

[Akashimo]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

Don't generalize, only NAs don't invite WHMs at higher levels, most of my merit parties have WHM in them as a default job.

SE doesn't need to do anything to fix WHM because they don't need to be fixed, it isn't SE's fault NAs don't know how to play or make efficient parties.

You say WHM is overkill, when in fact WHM means endless MP (and pulling) with the right party setups.

This is entirely true, but in most cases, there just isn't enough people willing or actually leveling the jobs to make the right party setups.

[Spiritbear]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

Plain and simple people in NA don't want to play whm, they want to be in the fray killing the mobs, but at the same time they want to complain when there are no whms or main healers floating around. When I started the game I hated the idea of sitting in the back of a pt curing everyone (as a matter of fact up until 45ish I would ask the pt if they had a problem with me lvling my club skills just so I could fight too). I didn't want to be the fall guy when something went wrong. I wanted to be the guy killing the mob. When I decided that I was wanted bst more then anything I switched from war to whm so I could go bst/whm later on. I ended up liking whm and stayed with it all the way to 50 then switched to bst. If some of the people that are complaining would stop complaining and go lvl whm for awhile maybe we wouldn't have a shortage of whm.

[Armando]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

The fact that people don't play back line jobs is because it doesn't appeal to the masses and few that want to do it along with the few that does it for the merrits of their other 75 jobs and/or getting items for not that job in end game. I agree Blu had potentional, but from my limit experiance (mostly solo) of getting to 23, I can see why it is a DD. Stoneskin before rdm and whm, cocoon and pollen makes it self effectiant. Unless they made a DD job that heals party members at the same time heals party members(Highly unlikely due to over powering and put the rest out of the picture), I don't see really any good solutions so far or viable to appeal to people.

With the addition of Wild Carrot, BLU/WHM is so much better off than SMN in terms of curing capabilities if you ask me. Healing Breeze when maxed out is far stronger than Curaga and doesn't cost much more. Wild Carrot is available at 37 and is the equivalent of Cure III (slightly stronger, actually, I think) while costing slightly less. SMNs don't get Cure III until 42. BLU can also Dispel, Silence, AoE sleep, and take advantage of Breath spells for decent damage from the backline. Plus, they have Cocoon and better armor than WHM or SMN for when things get iffy.

I highly disagree that BLU is a mediocre DD. BLUs do good damage and bring so many other things to the table that even if they were a bit lacking in the damage department, inviting one would still be justifiable. However, I do agree that it has lots of potential as a healer job that noone wants to take advantage of. People can justify SMN/WHM, then they sure as hell can justify BLU/WHM.

By the way, Metallic Body sucks. It absorbs like 40 HP.

[Renaissance 2K]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

BLU/WHM is a phenomenal main healer if they take off the melee gear and put on some mage gear. Right after BLU got Wild Carrot and raided Yhoator Jungle with a party that I had to argue with for ten minutes to convince them I could heal properly. It was a lot of fun. Pump MND and MP, and you'll be getting a lot of mileage out of Wild Carrot, while still being able to throw in a debuff or Magic Burst when applicable.

RDM and BLU are perfectly capable main healers. With a /WHM subjob, they have 99% of all the tools they need to main heal properly. BLM and SMN are healers out of desperation. They can do it, but it's stressful, it's not particularly easy, and party members have a very hard time recognizing their limitations.

I recently became fascinated with Fast Cast, so I took RDM up to 40. Yes, I did happily main heal on a number of occasions because once you've completed the debuff cycle, there isn't much else to do with yourself until the mob throws out a buff or the melee get ready to skillchain. However, I had to take BLM to 32 beforehand so I could ditch a few equipment pieces I was keeping on hand. Invites were rare with both jobs, so it took a while, but I was appalled when I was invited as BLM to one party in particular and asked to main heal. Why did this upset me so much? The leader was a RDM.

I don't know where so many RDMs get off thinking they're free from the "main heal" card until they reach merit levels, in which case they do whatever they can to shoehorn the WHM out of the party as quickly as possible. RDMs are the second most-capable healer in the game because of the speed at which they get their Cure spells and the arsenal available to them. This becomes even more true after Refresh/Convert. BLMs have no native Cure spells, and SMN restorative abilities effectively take 13 seconds to cast with an additional 4 second cooldown. That's not practical. And relying on Cure until 22, Cure II until 42, and having nothing but Cure III and Curaga II at endgame is absurd - especially with the new phase of "I have a fully-leveled /NIN subjob for show, but I don't actually cast Utsusemi" melee.

I've already taken WHM 75 levels. If I level a job like BLM, I expect to be able to nuke.

[Auron517]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

Don't generalize, only NAs don't invite WHMs at higher levels, most of my merit parties have WHM in them as a default job.
SE doesn't need to do anything to fix WHM because they don't need to be fixed, it isn't SE's fault NAs don't know how to play or make efficient parties.
You say WHM is overkill, when in fact WHM means endless MP (and pulling) with the right party setups.

Don't misquote me. I didn't say that White Mage are overkill, I was merely expressing what the mentality is for ToA merit settings.

You also don't have to preach to me about the effectiveness of WHM in a group, I'm well aware of them (And If I was not, my main certainly wouldn't be White Mage).

I already stated, I don't think White Mage is broken in any sense, but it's rather Healing Magic that I take issue with. Red Mage (C- Healing skill) shouldn't be able to heal back the same amount of Hit Points as White Mage (A+ Healing skill), just like on White Mage, with my C Enfeebling skill, I can't land status spells on exp mobs to save my life. That certainly makes sense, doesn't it?

[Mouser]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I've main healed several times as a BLU/WHM in the Mire in the upper 60's with a BRD or RDM in support (auto-refresh by itself doesn't quite cut it). In some ways I prefer it over DDing vs Imps since I get frustrated waiting for overworked RDMs or inattentive WHMs to cast Silena or other status cures. With modest +MND gear and a Light Staff, at 70 Wild Carrot cures 198 HP for 37 MP and Magic Fruit cures 407 for 72 MP. I toss in Diamondhide to pre-heal if we fight flies. Sort of like a SMN/WHM with a tiny MP pool and Cure IV :D

[Shadowneko]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

It isn't WHMs I'm having trouble with in the 40s on my server...It's tanks! That's right I can't find any Pallys, Ninjas or even a stray Warrior. I can usually find all the makings of a party but I can't ever find a tank!

[Susurrus]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I have WHM, RDM, and SMN to 75.

Summoner is a joke for cures and has been for any levels recently. I don't see why people think its a good idea to put SMN in the main healer role. Cure III is pathetic, especially when coming from a subjob. About 60 and higher, most times I was in a main healer role as SMN, the party was slow and there were deaths quite a bit just due to the fact spamming Cure III is MP unefficient and I couldn't cast it fast enough to keep people alive. I've even had someone complain to me when they died saying I dind't cure them fast enough and I "obviously" wasn't paying attention when I was spamming cure 3s at them. Summoner can be a good job, but not many people utilize them properly in parties, they are support/damage jobs (the latest SMN update made them MUCH more effective, too). The WHM subjob is good for BACKUP healing, and to assist the main healer, not to BE the main healer.

Red Mage is a decent healer. Can do the job well, but the main problem with them is that Cure IV is fairly hate intensive as it is, and Red Mages don't get very much Enmity- gear. This could cause hate to bounce around. It seems to me Red Mage is better utilized more in the way Bards are used, just perhaps in different areas. I've been in a party as a Red Mage, and we had a White Mage, but I ended up pulling trolls much like you usually see Bard doing it (pull, sleep next to party for them to take down after the current enemy is dead), while keeping Refresh on the White Mage (and the Dark Knight which I think we had at the time), as well as help out with cures and Hastes. The pulls would generally be with enfeebles so the enfeebling was taken care of. This party got excellent exp/limit points, and was fun for me.

White Mage is obviously the best healer. People say Red Mage is good in merit parties for downtime due to refresh and convert, but I beg to differ. One big help is 3x auto-refresh from /SMN, Noble, and Sanction (is usually effecient, even if no refresher, but I usually have a BRD in these parties anyway). Also Cure V is nice because it is low hate, and actually MP efficient if you use most/all of its cure potential, especially with 307 Healing Magic (gear gives +30), Noble, and Apollo Staff. The biggest thing though, is Regen III, I save a LOT of MP by mainly using Regen III (double merited atm helps, too) and only using other cures when necessary.

Personally, I only enjoy main healing on White Mage. I can enjoy the other two jobs, just not in a main healing role.

[Olorin401]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I have WHM, RDM, and SMN to 75.
The biggest thing though, is Regen III, I save a LOT of MP by mainly using Regen III (double merited atm helps, too) and only using other cures when necessary.

It's really amazing to me how many people laugh when I tell them that I have four merits into my Regen potency. Tossing out a Regen III for 24/tick (or even in capped areas Regen for 9 or Regen II for 14) is just insane. Add to that the bonus given by a Cleric's Briault....

[Shadowneko]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I have WHM, RDM, and SMN to 75.

Summoner is a joke for cures and has been for any levels recently. I don't see why people think its a good idea to put SMN in the main healer role. Cure III is pathetic, especially when coming from a subjob. About 60 and higher, most times I was in a main healer role as SMN, the party was slow and there were deaths quite a bit just due to the fact spamming Cure III is MP unefficient and I couldn't cast it fast enough to keep people alive. I've even had someone complain to me when they died saying I dind't cure them fast enough and I "obviously" wasn't paying attention when I was spamming cure 3s at them. Summoner can be a good job, but not many people utilize them properly in parties, they are support/damage jobs (the latest SMN update made them MUCH more effective, too). The WHM subjob is good for BACKUP healing, and to assist the main healer, not to BE the main healer.

I keep saying stuff like this but no one listens to me. I only cure people under protest as Summoner and if anyone asks I do not really want to main heal but it seems that people have trapped the job in this role...

[Lmnop]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I know it kinda makes me sound like a dick but...

That whole "I leveled WHM to 75 already, I don't want to main heal on X job too" argument... I don't like it. That's like "I already leveled PLD to 75, I didn't level NIN to tank." Maybe someone will say that's not a fair comparison, considering that NIN's main job is tank now. Ok, let's use WAR then. "I've already leveled PLD to 75, I'm not leveling WAR to tank." Which is stupid, because I would trust that WAR tanking more than a RNG-turned-WAR.

The point is, it's a facet of the RDM job to have the capacity of healing when the need arises. The other jobs with MP pools and /whm can cure too. It may not be the best main healer, but you simply cannot make the blanket statement that you won't heal. Because this game was built to utilize subjobs. To deny that facet of your job is to gimp yourself. WHM is the dedicated healing job, but it's not the only healing job.

[Necropolis]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I agree with Lnmop to an extent, I have leveled whm to 75, and when I play another mage job, I feel like playing other facets of that job. Enfeebling or nuking as a smn, blm, or rdm appels to me more than just main healing once again for 75 more levels.

But I have natural Curative spells with rdm, and have cures from /whm on smn or blm, so I tend use them when needed, but while seeking I'll add comments as to what I will or will not do in a pt. If I don't feel like main healing on smn or rdm that day, I'll add that to my search comment, and vice versa.

While I agree that cures are available to smn blm or rdm (whether naturally for from subjob), a player should beable to explore the other facets of a job if they desire, as long as they are honest from the start of a party what they are willing to do. I've been invited as main healer on rdm when I've already added to my search comment that I wouldn't, so I just inform the party leader, and suggest they find someone more willing to fill that role.

Main healing to me requires an added amount on focus on the game, and some days I just don't have that extra bit, so I advertise myself to fill roles I feel like filling.

[Neomage]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

Don't generalize

NAs don't invite WHMs at higher levels

You were saying?

[Shadowneko]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I know it kinda makes me sound like a dick but...

That whole "I leveled WHM to 75 already, I don't want to main heal on X job too" argument... I don't like it. That's like "I already leveled PLD to 75, I didn't level NIN to tank." Maybe someone will say that's not a fair comparison, considering that NIN's main job is tank now. Ok, let's use WAR then. "I've already leveled PLD to 75, I'm not leveling WAR to tank." Which is stupid, because I would trust that WAR tanking more than a RNG-turned-WAR.

The point is, it's a facet of the RDM job to have the capacity of healing when the need arises. The other jobs with MP pools and /whm can cure too. It may not be the best main healer, but you simply cannot make the blanket statement that you won't heal. Because this game was built to utilize subjobs. To deny that facet of your job is to gimp yourself. WHM is the dedicated healing job, but it's not the only healing job.

Not to get into more of a flame war but I just wana put in my thing "I'm not playing Summoner to be a gimp WHM. I'm playing Sumoner to be just that...A Summoner!"

[Akashimo]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I know it kinda makes me sound like a dick but...

That whole "I leveled WHM to 75 already, I don't want to main heal on X job too" argument... I don't like it. That's like "I already leveled PLD to 75, I didn't level NIN to tank." Maybe someone will say that's not a fair comparison, considering that NIN's main job is tank now. Ok, let's use WAR then. "I've already leveled PLD to 75, I'm not leveling WAR to tank." Which is stupid, because I would trust that WAR tanking more than a RNG-turned-WAR.

The point is, it's a facet of the RDM job to have the capacity of healing when the need arises. The other jobs with MP pools and /whm can cure too. It may not be the best main healer, but you simply cannot make the blanket statement that you won't heal. Because this game was built to utilize subjobs. To deny that facet of your job is to gimp yourself. WHM is the dedicated healing job, but it's not the only healing job.

So in the simplest way even a pld/whm can take up the role of main healing? Or maybe drk/whm? I'm sorry, but the sub does not make the absolute role of the job. It help BUILD the role with gear and food, but doesn't automatically MAKE the role. And to the 75 statements. Lets see you try whm then rdm, you'll likely change your tune. Nin, if i had the moeny, I'd lvl nin/blm to tank, honestly I would. Aside the gil draining to be effective, I love every aspect about it. After nin i would lvl pld to straight tank like any other.